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Spraying through apps-roof/floor

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Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby O_Epsilon_O » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:15 pm

Hello

Just wanted to know what exactly the rulings are for this kind of behaviour (PM'd Sambo in steam about whether I would be allowed to make a thread but he said he was uncertain) - So worth a try right :P?

(If this isn't correct, then feel free to delete the thread)

Anyways:
I obviously don't need to go into detail about how infuriating it is having to cope with a hidden assassin spraying through the roof. In such a crowded place it is difficult to try and escape - You're bound to take at least some damage.
In such a spot of bother, you're either relying on some CT's rushing far side without being killed by either cellar or roof Terrorists, or you hope to have the fortune that the end of apps is clear for you to run out and turn around in an attempt to kill.

The point being is that it is blatant bull-
The Terroists can shoot through to the CT's, however the CT's cannot shoot back (I have even a bunch of CT's to demonstrate this, and I did not observe any bullet holes going through.)
This is clearly unfair, as unlike wall-banging where both sides can have an opportunity to shoot at the walls and perhaps hurt the enemy, in this case its solely on the T side

Discuss? Anything to add?

Regards
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Dylan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Me and lewis Tested it for him i have a recording of it (not so good) but Its shows me shootingThrough the Roof and Lewis was underneath me shooting back i took no damage
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby lewisSAFClaybourne » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:23 pm

i can clarify this as i tried this multiple of times to shoot back at epsilon and also dylan. They fired first at me through the apps roof and i took quite a lot of damage. I then shot back at them but no bullets were seen going through the roof and no damage given. I can also say that its quite frustrating when you dont have the same advantage as the other team. If anyone could help us with this subject it would be much appreciated.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby DJRenegade » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:37 pm

being such a difficult thing to enforce, I cant see this being stopped. Also the fact you can shoot one way afaik this will be intentionally put in, back when I used to try make maps I remember there was a thing I could put in that only allowed bullets to travel one way.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Leon » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:45 pm

Not so much of a complaint as this isn't specifically anyone your targeting and rather more of a discussion on how we might tackle said issue. So I have moved this to the appropriate section of the forums ;)

To be honest it would be extremely difficult to enforce or implement any ruling on this that isn't already covered in rules and guideline suggestions. I can see the frustration it might bring but if I am really honest with you, in all my time spent playing on Italy, it only ever happens a handful of times. A bit like when someone climbs up to the windows in market.

I'd be more inclined to say that it's a clever use of tactics to wipe out the opposing team which is one of their objectives as T's. Granted, it's frustrating but it's no different to people who are on CT who make it to the T house and shoot through the outer walls and kill the T inside - and yes that really can happen! Or when you shoot through the boxes. So, really there are advantages on both teams with regards to the fairness of what both teams can achieve thanks to the map itself. Also, CT's have many alternative options and don't necessarily have to rush through apps. If anything, if you go a different way for a few rounds the chances are that those who are on the apps roof will get bored and will cease to continue.

What I can say to you though is, IF and only if you are getting the same player/s who are only ever rushing to get on the roof and are consistently (without fail) positioning themselves up there each and every round, then you can politely ask them if they'd mind not doing so, so that it doesn't take the fun aspect out of the game. But, ideally, it needs to avoid the punishment route (unless verbally rude or offensive) as I don't feel it's a major crime.

So, put them off by changing your own tactics and see if that deters them from doing so but I don't want to find out that people are making up rules as a means to stop this. If they are breaking the rules then fine, use the guidelines, but as far as I am concerned, no rules are broken here if this is all they are doing from time to time.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby DJRenegade » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 pm

Leon wrote:What I can say to you though is, IF and only if you are getting the same player/s who are only ever rushing to get on the roof and are consistently (without fail) positioning themselves up there each and every round, then you can politely ask them if they'd mind not doing so, so that it doesn't take the fun aspect out of the game. But, ideally, it needs to avoid the punishment route (unless verbally rude or offensive) as I don't feel it's a major crime.


But then surely you are taking away their fun in order to improve your own, a bit selfish surely?
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Dylan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:55 pm

Here is Some of the Proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYDgEIjm ... e=youtu.be Thnx For Seeing this
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby lewisSAFClaybourne » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:57 pm

i can see the point raised leon thanks :) also if you could go into a bit more detail about how t's can shoot through the apps roof and how ct's cant because that bit im still unsure about?

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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby O_Epsilon_O » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:58 pm

Thanks for the reply chaps

Regarding the T spawn and boxes though Leon - Both sides are able to shoot back. This is why I am curious regarding this case since it solely benefits the terroists

As for the examples, we all know of ioni who used to do it (Never experienced it since), however it seems his successor of k2dh has taken his old place
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Leon » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:29 pm

DJRenegade wrote:
Leon wrote:What I can say to you though is, IF and only if you are getting the same player/s who are only ever rushing to get on the roof and are consistently (without fail) positioning themselves up there each and every round, then you can politely ask them if they'd mind not doing so, so that it doesn't take the fun aspect out of the game. But, ideally, it needs to avoid the punishment route (unless verbally rude or offensive) as I don't feel it's a major crime.


But then surely you are taking away their fun in order to improve your own, a bit selfish surely?


By this I mean, really if they are there without fail each and every round, i.e. consistently, then it could be deemed as camping, when they have a variety of other places they could go. My point though was to not make it a route that followed a punishment and more of a 'come on, lets try something different instead of sitting up here every round' approach.

lewisSAFClaybourne wrote:i can see the point raised leon thanks :) also if you could go into a bit more detail about how t's can shoot through the apps roof and how ct's cant because that bit im still unsure about?


If I am perfectly honest, I am not sure as to why this is possible, but perhaps Gran or Yellow might be able to complete that missing part of your puzzle ;)

O_Epsilon_O wrote:Thanks for the reply chaps

Regarding the T spawn and boxes though Leon - Both sides are able to shoot back. This is why I am curious regarding this case since it solely benefits the terroists

As for the examples, we all know of ioni who used to do it (Never experienced it since), however it seems his successor of k2dh has taken his old place

Regards.


As I said, I appreciate the frustration, but it is rare nevertheless hence the suggestions I made above. I know ioni was notorious for doing this and has since ceased for now, as for k2dh, like a lot of things, this chap gets bored easily so I should imagine he will tire from it himself.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Bane » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:56 pm

Personally, if someone wants to rush forwards to get to an advantage spot such as the roof by apps, why should they get told to move on to find another spot? If they want to rush and then camp is doesn't break any of our rules does it? It's like if Ts just constantly camp in the house with s scout which I know a few of the INC members do, is that against the rules? I can see if CTs camp that would be against the rules as their objective is to try to obtain the hostages and return with them while killing the terrorists.
Can't see a problem with someone wanting to go somewhere on the map that why enjoy. I personally think its an bad position as when CTs push Wine Cellar you are stuck and the only way out is death really.

Regards to the shooting through the roof, yes he/she might hit you but it will only be little damage and by this time he/she is showing up on radar for your team mates to nade/shoot him. I think there are pros and cons about going on the roof and they balance out quiet equally and should be left to anyone to go up there (even if it is every round) otherwise we will be saying this about a lot of places, like wine cellar, long hall or even Terrorists house.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Amanda » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:32 pm

I constantly have people complaining about this and it has happened to myself. It is ALWAYS the same 3/4 people that do it this is why I ask them not to go on roof for say more than 4-5 rounds in a row, then it atleast gives the cts a chance to get through the apps without being instantly shot in the head by the terrorist on the roof.
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby O_Epsilon_O » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:37 pm

In my eyes, the fact you can be hurt at all from one point of view; and not be able to inflict anything of the sort back from the opposite point of view, is rubbish. I am well aware it isn't too difficult depending on the scenario to rush far side and get rid of the roof campers, but the fact remains that if this isn't done, you're effectively being hurt by an invulnerable opponent and you cannot even retaliate.

I am aware this topic is difficult, hence the reason for discussion
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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby Amanda » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:51 pm

Since only the damage can only come from one side does that not mean that this is an exploit? So therefore is against the rules?


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Re: Spraying through apps-roof/floor

Unread postby MrGratton » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:11 pm

I agree that its an unfair advantage, players are exploiting the fact that they can damage players but not receive damage back. It isn't always minor damage, I have seen plenty of players killed out right from this. As of late its getting difficult to respond to people who ask whats ok and whats not (excluding the obvious). I did point out to epsilon it would be a difficult subject.
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